Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR and the Curse of Potential

he has the potential...
this year was a wash, forget about and move on

great read as always.

and also, great work Getzlaf

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR and the Curse of Potential
- bmeltzer

A lot of folks just want to give up on the guy.

I remember hearing a lot of the same knocks about John LeClair, and JvR has much better stats at age 22 than LeClair did.

A lot of times people forget that JvR's developmental path was not the same as a guy like Sean Couturier. Couturier's been playing against higher levels of competition, not going through NJ high schools and the USDT program that JvR took.

It's easy to be frustrated by JvR's slow development and inconsistent nature. I'm also not completely against trading him in the right move, but I think he's got a lot of value around the league. Despite the significant cap hit, he's still a 6'3" 220 lb winger who has a 20+ goal season at age 22

If the Flyers do end up trading JVR, will that have any affect on signing players to long term deals in the future? My knowledge on contract negotiations is slightly lacking, but if I'm a player or an agent, it'd be hard to agree to a long term, hometown discount type deal. If JVR goes, that would be 3 players signed to multiple year deals, then promptly shipped out.

A lot of folks just want to give up on the guy.

I remember hearing a lot of the same knocks about John LeClair, and JvR has much better stats at age 22 than LeClair did.

A lot of times people forget that JvR's developmental path was not the same as a guy like Sean Couturier. Couturier's been playing against higher levels of competition, not going through NJ high schools and the USDT program that JvR took.

It's easy to be frustrated by JvR's slow development and inconsistent nature. I'm also not completely against trading him in the right move, but I think he's got a lot of value around the league. Despite the significant cap hit, he's still a 6'3" 220 lb winger who has a 20+ goal season at age 22
- Jsaquella

Psssh.. He should be scoring 40+ and potting 50+ assists. Total Bust.

Psssh.. He should be scoring 40+ and potting 50+ assists. Total Bust.
- jak521

Really. And the nerve of the kid to stay at UNH as long as he did.

If the Flyers do end up trading JVR, will that have any affect on signing players to long term deals in the future? My knowledge on contract negotiations is slightly lacking, but if I'm a player or an agent, it'd be hard to agree to a long term, hometown discount type deal. If JVR goes, that would be 3 players signed to multiple year deals, then promptly shipped out.
- jd342

I know its a business and the players know that, but that is the same thing I think about. It doesnt look good from a "in good faith" stand point.

Here, we will extend you this offer.. 6 years at __ per year. Oh, and we will trade you to the team of our choice right before it kicks in.

Really. And the nerve of the kid to stay at UNH as long as he did.
- tangent_man

The fact that he chose UNH in itself should have been a red flag. Seriously? New Hampshire?

A lot of folks just want to give up on the guy.

I remember hearing a lot of the same knocks about John LeClair, and JvR has much better stats at age 22 than LeClair did.

A lot of times people forget that JvR's developmental path was not the same as a guy like Sean Couturier. Couturier's been playing against higher levels of competition, not going through NJ high schools and the USDT program that JvR took.

It's easy to be frustrated by JvR's slow development and inconsistent nature. I'm also not completely against trading him in the right move, but I think he's got a lot of value around the league. Despite the significant cap hit, he's still a 6'3" 220 lb winger who has a 20+ goal season at age 22
- Jsaquella

LeClair is a great comparison, but there's been several Flyers players around his age that were traded and blossomed into good players (thank you Bob Clarke). Justin Williams, Patrick Sharp, Dainius Zubrus, Dennis Seidenberg, etc. The organization was always so quick to give up on young talent to acquire older, veteran players. I can only hope they don't continue to make these mistakes!

LeClair is a great comparison, but there's been several Flyers players around his age that were traded and blossomed into good players (thank you Bob Clarke). Justin Williams, Patrick Sharp, Dainius Zubrus, Dennis Seidenberg, etc. The organization was always so quick to give up on young talent to acquire older, veteran players. I can only hope they don't continue to make these mistakes!
- aantny88

Give up? Not really, different philosophy back then...no cap, didn't have to rely on rookies or younger players that much.
Sharp wasn't getting playing time, so Clarke sent him to a bad Black Hawk team and he developed through some lean years over there.

Zubrus should've stayed in juniors another year but the Flyers gave him a chance.

Seidenberg got hurt early on a few times and then couldn't crack the line up so they dealt him away. But the potential was there...

Williams brought over Preems (if I remember correctly) and that was going to push the team over the top with having him down the middle with Lindros. Things didn't pan out.

I know its a business and the players know that, but that is the same thing I think about. It doesnt look good from a "in good faith" stand point.

Here, we will extend you this offer.. 6 years at __ per year. Oh, and we will trade you to the team of our choice right before it kicks in.
- jak521

I agree, the last few trades they have made have been with players that have just signed long contracts.

The fact that he chose UNH in itself should have been a red flag. Seriously? New Hampshire?
- jak521

Well, his brother Fred was a Delta at UNH, so he was a legacy. Pretty much had to go there.

Give up? Not really, different philosophy back then...no cap, didn't have to rely on rookies or younger players that much.
Sharp wasn't getting playing time, so Clarke sent him to a bad Black Hawk team and he developed through some lean years over there.

Zubrus should've stayed in juniors another year but the Flyers gave him a chance.

Seidenberg got early a few times and then couldn't crack the line up so they dealt him away.

Williams brought over Preems (if I remember correctly) and that was going to push the team over the top with having him down the middle with Lindros. Things didn't pan out.
- phi1671

Williams brought Markov. Its was Rod the Bod that got us Preems.

Well, his brother Fred was a Delta at UNH, so he was a legacy. Pretty much had to go there.


- tangent_man

So on top of it he doesnt even have the inner strength to do what he wants for himself? Follows in Freds footsteps because he pretty much had to?

So on top of everything else, you can add weak character.

A lot of folks just want to give up on the guy.

I remember hearing a lot of the same knocks about John LeClair, and JvR has much better stats at age 22 than LeClair did.

A lot of times people forget that JvR's developmental path was not the same as a guy like Sean Couturier. Couturier's been playing against higher levels of competition, not going through NJ high schools and the USDT program that JvR took.

It's easy to be frustrated by JvR's slow development and inconsistent nature. I'm also not completely against trading him in the right move, but I think he's got a lot of value around the league. Despite the significant cap hit, he's still a 6'3" 220 lb winger who has a 20+ goal season at age 22
- Jsaquella

100% agree

i would trade JVR in a package for Weber...thats about it...

I always liked Williams and have missed him since he left.

Give up? Not really, different philosophy back then...no cap, didn't have to rely on rookies or younger players that much.
Sharp wasn't getting playing time, so Clarke sent him to a bad Black Hawk team and he developed through some lean years over there.

Zubrus should've stayed in juniors another year but the Flyers gave him a chance.

Seidenberg got hurt early on a few times and then couldn't crack the line up so they dealt him away. But the potential was there...

Williams brought over Preems (if I remember correctly) and that was going to push the team over the top with having him down the middle with Lindros. Things didn't pan out.
- phi1671

Different philosophy that didn't work then and won't work now. So it's Zubrus' fault the Flyers thought he was good enough to make the team and then sent him packing cause he wasn't ready? Sounds like poor decision making on the Flyers part to me. Honestly look at Detroit. Players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, et al have had their share of injuries and not so great years production wise, but were given plenty of time to develop. It's only won them Stanley Cups. Relying on rookies is one thing, but shipping them out before they're given much of a chance is something else. As much as I hope JVR continues to develop into that dominant player we saw two years ago in the playoffs, he still needs to be given an opportunity to do so.

I always liked Williams and have missed him since he left.
- FlyersFirst

He still has really strong ties to this area.. His wife is a delco girl, and her family still lives in the house she grew up in. They also spend a good chunk of the summer at their shore house, which, IIRC, is in Sea Isle.

i would trade JVR in a package for Weber...thats about it...
- Philly1980

When your getting back a franchise type defenseman which is hard to find I pull the trigger on that deal every day of the week.

Different philosophy that didn't work then and won't work now. So it's Zubrus' fault the Flyers thought he was good enough to make the team and then sent him packing cause he wasn't ready? Sounds like poor decision making on the Flyers part to me. Honestly look at Detroit. Players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, et al have had their share of injuries and not so great years production wise, but were given plenty of time to develop. It's only won them Stanley Cups. Relying on rookies is one thing, but shipping them out before they're given much of a chance is something else. As much as I hope JVR continues to develop into that dominant player we saw two years ago in the playoffs, he still needs to be given an opportunity to do so.
- aantny88

Thats exactly what he was saying.. Zubrus should have stayed in Jrs.. but the Flyers rushed him.

Williams brought Markov. Its was Rod the Bod that got us Preems.
- jak521

Thanks Jak...
The Flyers needed DEFENSE and we got Markov....

Tough year for JVR. This was the year he was supposed to take the next step and he got hurt. Not much you can do about injuries. I would give him 2 more years.

I always liked Williams and have missed him since he left.
- FlyersFirst

Hasn't been able to stay healthy a lot, but when he is he always seems to be doing good things.